In Conversation with Director Casimir Nozkowski for ‘The Outside Story,’ Discussing Macabre Jobs and Schlumpy Sweaters

Writer/Director Casimir Nozkowski has taken experience from short documentaries on the journey to his first feature film, “The Outside Story.” It’s a film about the introverted Charles (Brian Tyree Henry), someone who is perfectly content spending his days in his apartment doing freelance editing. A breakup with Isha (Sonequa Martin-Green) turns his world upside down. Then, he inadvertently locks himself out of his apartment. Being unable to get back in forces him to explore his surroundings and meet his neighbors.

Nowzkowski took inspiration for the film from getting out of a comfort zone. He has, in fact, been locked out of his apartment, too. At least three or four times. “That’s a pretty high batting average of locking yourself out,” said Nozkowski over our Zoom interview.

He was also inspired by other facets than just being locked out. “It’s also from all the little things that happen when you get locked out,” said Nozkowski. You do end up meeting your neighbors. It felt like this would be a great foundation for a story. It has all these ways you meet surprising characters, but who are also around you all the time.”

Locked out

“I’d say the longest I’ve been locked was about two, maybe three hours,” said Nozkowski. “I had no shoes and I did climb out on my neighbour’s fire escape, where I did meet them for the very first time and saw how they were living.

“I found my out my window was locked. It actually had a gate on it back then and the gate was locked. I could open the window so I could reach into my apartment [but]I couldn’t go through this gate,” Nozkowski said with a laugh. “It’s all in there… This movie is like a documentary of that time I was locked out the [longest].”

Nozkowski explained that he waited for his landlord, who eventually came. As a documentary filmmaker, he brings certain things from his own life and the character of the landlord in the film (heard only in voice, performed by David Zayas) was one of them.

“He grew up in my apartment, he was born in my actual current apartment,” said Nozkowski. “I wanted the landlord to be this voice of doom, like a voice of anxiety with all this stuff that’s happening and he can’t get there. He’s telling you all these things like, ‘Don’t call locksmiths, they steal all your shit.’”

Nozkowski’s own filmography has prepped him into making this feature film as he’s made multiple short films and short documentaries. “I do feel like a lot of my feature screenplay writing really comes from, sometimes, very nakedly mining my life,” noted Nozkowski, explaining that when he sees an interesting person in his life, it’s hard for him not to put them in a film.

The shape of neighbors

Nozkowski explains that the characters in his film may not necessarily be specifically his neighbors, but more-so “shapes of neighbors” and his past neighbors.

“When I was writing, I think I was picturing people in my life,” said Nozkowski. “My neighborhood is filled with kids, so it’s very easy to think of a little girl who’s got a complicated life. I would have fun visually thinking about those people, but then actually spend a lot of time imagining their life.”

Nozkowski mentions being an avid people watcher and imagine what strangers do in their everyday lives and what they do for a living. “This is something that’s probably going to sound creepy,” Nozkowski said with a laugh. “In New York, it’s hard not to walk by an open window or doorway and you look into an apartment [and see]a total stranger. You see a table, a painting, a bookshelf. Someone sitting on the ground and you imagine what their life is like. I love playing that game, like, “Oh, army veteran… Someone who just got fired… Someone who fell in love for the first time and is really being caught up in it.’

“I sort-of fantasize about knocking on someone’s door and being like, ‘Hi, you don’t know me, I’m a filmmaker. I wanted to ask you what are your greatest fears?’” Nozkowski said, laughing. “’ Could you just tell me your biggest regret from life? Have you ever been in love? This is going to be really out of line, but have you ever killed someone?’ I know it’s a little cuckoo, but I think it’s taking that funny sort-of game and applying that to these characters. This film is like my attempt to answer the questions I have about the people who live around me.”

Traffic cops

Nozkowski also happens to be a lifelong New Yorker. In that time, he’s had a number of run-ins with traffic cops. He explains that he has a car in New York, as he lives in the Carroll Gardens neighborhood, but he constantly has to move it since he doesn’t use a parking garage. “If you nail it, you only have to move the car once a week,” said Nozkowski. “It’s a beautiful feeling.

“Sometimes you might move the car two, three, four times a week. The thing that happens is you set the alarm but you don’t put your ringer on. The alarm clock doesn’t go off, so you’ve got your car double parked at 1 p.m., [when]it’s illegal to double park. All of the sudden, you’re working and you look at the clock and it’s 3 p.m. and you freak out.

“I’ve had many times when I’ve sprinted, sprinted, down to my car and there’s a parking cop [there]or someone towing it. I’ve had some really good experiences where I’ve talked them out of towing it,” Nozkowski said with a laugh.

This helped inspire one of the main characters seen in “The Outside Story,” a traffic cop named Z. Slater, portrayed by Sunita Muni.

“I’ve definitely looked at the parking cops in my neighborhood and thought about how much literally everyone hates them,” said Nozkowski. “I wondered what it would be like to be a parking cop who has to be kind-of armored up against that kind of loathing.”

‘Food Warriors’

He then tried to find the relatability in the character and as for bringing his documentary series “Food Warriors” into play is by inspiration, as the traffic cop takes Charles to some of her favourite spots to eat around New York that Charles had never tried in the film.

“I know these places in this script, obviously,” said Nozkowski. “Those are some of my favourite places that I live by and go to all the time. If you live in a place like New York, that’s so vast, you can’t help but miss out. I’ve lived in New York all my life and I guarantee I’ve only scratched the surface of restaurants.”

He talks about finding some inspiration for this sub-plot from a documentary series he worked on, called “Food Warriors,” where Nozkowski and his team would take the A-train at the top of the city and ride it to the Rockaways, getting off at every stop and asking neighborhood patrons their favourite restaurant in the area, as he said for many of the stops, he hadn’t tried these restaurants.

“I think I wanted to pay a little homage to that “Food Warriors” experience,” said Nozkowski. “Just being blown away by something that someone else thinks is just natural run-of-the-mill stuff.

The film is much bigger than simply just food and broadening one’s horizons in that aspect, as the film truly is about seeing what’s in front of you and not letting things pass you by.

“That was kind-of the mission of a lot of my documentaries,” said Nozkowski. “I think ultimately it became the mission of this film [with]Charles literally realizing he could have this transformational Odyssey just on his block.”

Working with Brian Tyree Henry

Nozkowski also spoke about how Brian Tyree Henry was the first one cast for the film, as the neighbors really had to work around his character as he is the audience’s way in. “He’s in every shot, every scene,” said Nozkowski. “He was the one the whole film lived or died with.”

Nozkowski tells a story, too, of at first not being able to turn that feeling off while speaking to him, as he was grateful to be working with some of his favourite working actors.

“I had lunch with Brian and I was like, ‘Yeah, I want to tell you about “The Outside Story,” but in “Atlanta” on that episode did you feel…,’” Nozkowski said with a laugh. “It was such a delight as a fan to get to talk to him about not only our film, but his other work.”

Attaching Tyree Henry to the project was integral to getting others on board. It also helped give a huge vote of confidence for others to work with the first-time director since Tyree Henry was on the team.

“Why wouldn’t you want to work with Brian Tyree Henry,” posed Nozkowski. “He’s such an incredible force and I think he really drew a lot of other wonderful people into the film. It’s amazing how everything has got to work out for an indie, but it’s also wonderful when you get to work with your absolute favourite actors.”

Macabre jobs

One of the more interesting aspects of “The Outside Story” is Charles’ unique job. He is a freelancer editor who edits In Memoriam videos for TCM. His latest deadline is finishing a video in time for an actor who is on his last legs. Usually, his job is making sure these videos are up to date in the event of an untimely death.

This is a job that Nozkowski has actually held at one point in time, which he learned about while doing TV promos with AMC for shows like “Mad Men” and “Breaking Bad.” His first run-in with the job came when his boss asked him to update the In Memoriam video for Clint Eastwood as he had just won an Oscar for “Million Dollar Baby.”

“I did a few of those. I remember thinking, ‘Wow, this is the most macabre job I’ve ever seen,’” said Nozkowski.

Nozkowski had this job in mind for a character stuck in a rut, unable to fix their life. That’s the perfect situation for Charles as he struggles for a break-up, and the perfect job for him.

“This would be perfect for them because it’s basically someone who can’t repair the damage of their life, “said Nozkowski. “They can obsess over someone else’s life. Even as a celebrity and somebody everybody knows communally. I love this idea of him obsessing about someone else’s life but unable to look at his own body of work. It felt like the perfect job for Charles. I just have never seen it on screen before and it felt right.”

And schlumpy sweaters

Casimir Nozkowski also complimented how Tyree Henry worked as an actor. He said he was supportive and collaborative on the project from the very beginning and pre-production.

“You get really lucky when you’re working with actors like that,” said Nozkowski. “[Ones] who are interested and invested and curious, and they have strong feelings about their character.”

He tells of a time where Tyree Henry vetoed one of Casimir’s directorial choices when it came to the wardrobe.

“He wears this kind-of schlumpy sweater, and I love that sweater,” he started. “To me it’s very key to the performance and that’s all Brian. I remember being like, ‘Oh, Brian, I got a jacket, it’s cool. It’s got some racing stripes, you want to-‘ and he’s like, ‘No way, that’s not Charles. Let me tell you something, screenwriter. Charles is someone who would be wearing his comfort sweater and wrap himself up in it.’

“I like [that]there’s so many moments like that where I feel really grateful to get to work with someone like Brian,” said Nozkowski. “He’s generous in the way that he works. It’s amazing.”

*”The Outside Story” is now available on demand and on digital.